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let's take this opportunity to bring in

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a special guest dr eric first the

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principal investigator for the

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investigation known as in space 3 or

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investigating the structure of

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paramagnetic aggregates from colloidal

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emulsions he's coming to us live from

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his lab at the university of delaware

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welcome eric thank you thanks

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well say let's start off with a real

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simple question what is this experiment

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you're working on

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sure the the experiment is looking at

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fluids that we call magneto-rheological

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fluids and

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these are

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fluid materials that are composed of

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little tiny particles they're about a

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micrometer in dimension suspended in

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water

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that micron if you if you if you think

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about the

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dimension or the diameter of a human

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hair that's about 1 100th of the size of

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a human hair

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and these particles when they normally

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they float around and the whole material

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behaves like a fluid

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but when you apply a magnetic field to

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those samples

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those little little particles act like

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magnets and they start to line up and

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they assemble with one another and if

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you look at this fluid

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what we call the rheology of the

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material how it flows uh when you apply

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that field it goes from a liquid to a

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solid very suddenly

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and so we're investigating with these

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experiments some of the underlying

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phenomena some of the some of the

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details of how those particles come

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together and assemble into those

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structures and how we can control that

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you know right now we're looking at some

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recorded video of what we've

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affectionately dubbed the green blob

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here in mission control

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and i know what you you know what this

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looks like because you've been watching

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the results of your experiment can you

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explain a little bit what we're looking

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at here sure absolutely so it doesn't

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look like much but it's actually pretty

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exciting for us these are the the black

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regions are the particles and and so

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those are the dimensions there are

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several hundred microns they're about

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the size of a human hair so we're not

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seeing the individual particles but what

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we're seeing is how they come together

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and aggregate in the presence of pulsed

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magnetic fields the green that you're

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mentioning is just a light passing

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through our sample so that's what allows

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us to distinguish the assembled

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structure from just the surrounding

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fluid

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we monitor that structure we look at how

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it evolves with time

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especially as we toggle the field on and

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off and we characterize the growth of

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those structures and how they develop

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and that's that's giving us insight into

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not only the the fluid properties of

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these materials but

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giving us some sense of how tiny

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particles come together and and do what

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we call self-assemble or build greater

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structures uh from themselves

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um so specifically what kind of

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activities does is go are going on

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within space this week and and how does

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the crew help you set up the experiment

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oh i mean the the the the experiments

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that we're doing is it's a it's a number

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of our uh test run experiments um we

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have a a about 40 experiments that we r

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that we run through to test a matrix

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of uh field strength different

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conditions field strength field

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frequency uh and suspension

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concentration and and actually these

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particles are tiny particles that have

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they're they're like little ellipsoids

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or a little rice grain like particles in

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shape if you if you were to look at them

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under a microscope they would they would

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have that sort of uh

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shape to them

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we have actually made a couple

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different types of particles that have

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different lengths

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and so we're looking at experiments that

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ask you know how does particle shape

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affect these processes as well

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so the astronauts take our samples i

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don't know if you have an image of those

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i mean it's a simple vial the fluids

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dispersed in that vial they were sent up

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i think on oh i want to say the

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discovery on the second to last launch

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or maybe it was the endeavor

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about two years ago

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they've been up there and the astronauts

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take those samples they

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integrate them into our experiment which

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is in the microgravity sciences glove

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box

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and you know it's real film at that

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point they have to

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they set up the entire experiment

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capture it on video we get the downlink

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data we monitor it in real time and the

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key thing is that they record it on dv

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video

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and that's sent back eventually so that

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we can we can take that very high

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quality data and analyze it for our

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research results

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okay well how does doing this experiment

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on the space station as opposed to on

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earth make it possible

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oh well these particles are heavy uh and

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so if you were to do this experiment on

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the earth which we do we do we do

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experiments with these materials

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but the the limit is that they just fall

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out of suspension so they'll they'll

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rapidly what we call uh sediment right

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so uh instead of being fluid and mobile

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and moving around uh they just fall out

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now we can do experiments and it's sort

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of like 2d experiments because they end

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up making sort of pancake like

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structures on the bottom of our

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our sample vials and we can look at that

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with microscopy but the key with

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microgravity is you know i eliminate

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that whole effect of of having them

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sediment out and so

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that makes the results that we have here

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much more generalizable in the sense

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that

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what we see and how particles assemble

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and the structures that they form we

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feel that that can translate the

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particles of all different sizes and

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what we're especially interested in is

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particles that are really small

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nanoparticles that we can't necessarily

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do experiments easily like this with

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anywhere

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we're getting some insight into how

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nanoparticles assemble by doing these

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experiments and from that we're trying

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to figure out basically how we can take

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tiny particles and build bigger

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structures from that that gets back to

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that kind of self-assembly idea that

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we're talking about we think that that's

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going to give us new technologies new

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ways of manufacturing based on the idea

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of taking little building blocks these

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little particles and having them come

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together self-assemble into bigger

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functional structures

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so in a way is this kind of like the old

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star trek next generation concept of

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nanobots

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oh i don't know you'll have to fill me

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in on that i can't remember the nanobot

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stuff um

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uh and you know probably

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i dream of that

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in some ways the materials that we're

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trying to enable

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may seem more mundane they may be

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thermal barriers they may be materials

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that enable a

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better better utility of

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solar power

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you know those

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one of the things that we've learned in

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nanotechnology is how to build

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structures

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that are really tailored

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to to transport light or to transport

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energy

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the question that we have is can we have

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those types of structures build

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themselves basically self-assemble but

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they're not they're not self-assembling

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in a sort of intelligent way right as a

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nanobot might i guess to form a bigger

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organism it's a little it's a little

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less organized than that

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okay uh and

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these colloids

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let's try to relate them to something

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folks on the ground that would

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recognize uh

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some things are like paint where you

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have to stir it so off every so often to

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keep the paint particles into the liquid

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systems is that right

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that's right i mean and actually the

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colloid sort of refers to a specific

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length scale of matter and that that

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goes back to that that the idea that

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these particles are on the order of

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about a micrometer a colloid is usually

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a it's a it's a division of matter it's

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a piece of matter that's anywhere from

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about 10 nanometers uh to several

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micrometers so the micron range is a

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little bit larger size scale

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what that why that length scale is um

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uh uh uh unique

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is that it it confers on these particles

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the ability to move around by brownian

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motion

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all right and and and that that kind of

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gives the the systems this ability to

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self-assemble but if you go back to

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where where people seen colloids you see

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it every day milk is a colloid basically

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it's a it's a dispersion of fat droplets

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in water and that's why it's so opaque

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all those little droplets are scattering

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light

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and clearly they don't sediment out or

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they don't cream right

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so they're they're moving around by

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brownian motion in that fluid many of

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the consumer products that we use and

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and like you mentioned paints

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and things like that many foods have

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some aspect of being colloidal and so

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it's a it's a it's a landscape matter we

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use every day of our lives but we often

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don't recognize that and uh you know

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it's a really uh if you get into food

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and you get excited about those types of

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things you'll find yourself actually

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working in this whole field of colloid

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science and and you know from there you

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can do many things you can control how

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fluids flow you can uh you know try to

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make these self-assembling structures

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it's really quite exciting

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well how might you apply this for the

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benefit of folks on the earth well like

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i said

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the whole question of how we get

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particles to come together and sort of

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form structures this idea of

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self-assembly right that's really what

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we

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insight into and

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if you go back to the problem of of

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fabricating

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nanomaterials or nano devices right i

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mean we know that we can make nano

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devices like uh what we have today in

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microprocessors from this you know sort

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of what we refer to as a top-down method

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where we you know add materials we

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subtract materials we build up the

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structure in a pretty laborious you know

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batch operation with many many steps um

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you know that's that's great that gives

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us these functional devices that are

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super sophisticated and and those

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devices those structures you know they

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move charge around and and they can do

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computations with that

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um

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what we're looking for is

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a method of manufacturing where we could

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where it would be scalable where we

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could do large areas in a continuous

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process

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so very fast very rapid you know you're

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not going to make microprocessors with

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this but you might make your new

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photovoltaic device out of it or

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photovoltaic material or your new

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thermal barrier you know for an

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application i can imagine that would be

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a nice space application in some cases

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so

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ultimately this is really going to

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benefit people on earth because it gives

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us this insight into making and

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fabricating new materials and and

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essentially coming up with new

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manufacturing processes that harness

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nanotechnology

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well thanks uh hey tell us a little

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about yourself where you from where did

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you go to school

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well i i did my undergraduate degree at

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carnegie mellon and that's not too far

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from where i grew up i grew up in

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johnstown pennsylvania in western

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pennsylvania and

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i did my

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graduate work after being at carnegie

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mellon i did my graduate work at

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stanford university under

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the

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underrated advisor alice gasp

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and

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after that i did a postdoc in france

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working a little bit in biophysics so

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another area that's influenced by

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colloid science and i've been here at

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the university of delaware now for

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almost 12 years

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my entire education has been in chemical

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engineering but you can see

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that background really bridges all sorts

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of areas from the physical sciences the

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chemistry so it's been a really rich and

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rewarding uh trajectory

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and and how big is your team there at

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the university of delaware i have uh

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about seven phd students sorry it's not

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an approximate number they're i actually

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have seven phd students and two postdocs

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working with me directly usually we have

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a couple undergraduate graduates in the

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lab and i have one or two high school

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students working with us as well so it's

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a team of you know fluctuates between

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about 12 and 14 people all different

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stages in their education doing work in

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the lab and helping us out

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in all the experiments and and and and

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all the discovery of knowledge that

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comes with that

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well dr eric first from the university

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of delaware i want to thank you once

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again for being with us and explaining

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this uh very interesting experiment that

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has potential applications in so many

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areas of our lives we really appreciate